The Nephilim

@JonahofNinevah

We know from very many accounts in scripture that angels (even fallen ones) can take physical form. In the Garden, Genesis 6 ... then to Abraham and Sarah, to Lot in Sodom (they even ate with Lot in Gen 19), Raphael to Tobias, etc.

We know demons, however, cannot. They need ... to "possess" people.

Angels are always angels, even after they're fallen.

Both Aquinas and Augustine said that the majority of the fallen were not yet in hell, but that the dark space above our atmosphere is their temporary banishment.

Reconcile.

We commonly refer to fallen angels as demons, as if they're the same thing.

Are they?

Interesting tangent ... this is a list.

We fight not against "flesh & blood" (people), but against:

1. principalities and powers,

2. rulers of the world of this darkness, and

3. the spirits of wickedness.

Back to whether fallen angels are the same thing as demons. The Book of Enoch has a strong take on it. For your reference, Enoch is not canonical, but it was referred to in 2nd Peter, and quoted in Jude. The Apostles all read it.

Enoch expounds on Gen 6, and says that

Fallen angels populated the earth with angel/human hybrids. "Men of renown" (sometimes oversimplified as "giants").

Taylor Marshall writes about Enoch here. He presents three different approaches to explaining it, but doesn't take a formal position.

While you're not obliged to believe Enoch, clearly both Peter and Jude did.

Enoch says the flood was to exterminate the Nephilim.

And the (canonical) book of Wisdom backs it up:

“And from the beginning also when the proud giants (γιγάντων) perished, the hope of the world fleeing to a vessel, which was governed by thy hand, left to the world seed of generation.” (Wisdom 14:6)

Back to the original topic - are fallen angels and demons the same thing?

Not according to Enoch.

According to Enoch, demons are the dead Nephilim.

Of course, if this is true (and I think it is), it puts Jesus words in Matthew 24 (“As it was in the days of Noah, so will be the coming of the Son of Man”) into an entirely different light ...

Now ... after reading that, read this thread with new understanding (scroll down)

One caveat: skeptics will quote Augustin who didn't believe the Fallen Angels copulated with women. 1st: Austine didn't have Enoch (it vanished until last century). 2nd: Augustine was the MINORITY opinion amongst Church Fathers Church Fathers who explicitly teach that angels copulated with women and bred giants in Genesis 6:

Justin Martyr, Tatian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, Tertullian, Irenaeus, Athenagoras, Commodianus, Ambrose of Milan.

Also ... although he held the minority view and quoted most often bc the majority view is too hard to believe, Augustine's mentor, Saint Ambrose, believed that the “sons of God” were the product of angels that copulated with humans ...

Some theologians believe Paul was referring to 1 Enoch here:

Check it out ... Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich sounds just like Enoch ... but she could never have read Enoch. (Scroll down)

******* SECOND THREAD *******

1. Approx 2500 BC

2. Approx 1928 BC

3. Approx 1406 BC

4. Last one is Jesus speaking specifically about the Pharisaical class of the Jews (not all Jews). Read it twice.

He was clearly speaking of biological parentage. Why did God forbid intermarriage with certain races? Was he racist? Of course not ...

Speculative? What about "thou shalt not kill?" That Commandment was given in 1446 BC. Then ...

A mere 40 years later, God gives this Order. Did God forget that he'd ordered mankind not to kill just 40 years before? Why would he do that? Show them no mercy? Don't breed with them? He goes on ...

and says, kill ALL of them. He even says He'll go after the ones that escape, by little and little degrees, until they're all wiped off the face of the earth.

But he told the Israelites not to kill 40 years before. Did God change? Make a mistake?

Or did the Commandment not apply to these particular "people" for some reason?

Why didn't he want the Israelites to intermarry with them?

In fact, he was so serious about it, that when the Jews began to taint their dna by sleeping with the daughters of Moab, God threatened to destroy the children of Israel. Phineas ended the threat by taking a spear and thrusting it through an Israelite and his Moab whore while they were having sex.

"Phinees the son of Eleazar the son of Aaron the priest, hath turned away my wrath from the children of Israel: because he was moved with my zeal against them, that I myself might not destroy the children of Israel in my zeal."

So, what's really going on here ...?

Why did Jesus call the Pharisees sons of Satan, clearly speaking biologically?

Why did he call Judas a "devil."

Why did he say they were "incapable" ever hearing His Word?

What does "as in the days of Noah" really mean?

Maybe we'll find out.

Thou wilt not be able to destroy them altogether: lest perhaps the beasts of the earth should increase upon thee." Deut 7:22.

*******THIRD THREAD*******

TFW you read Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich sounding like she read Enoch, which is impossible ...